Thousands of people visit Rochester each year. For many their first step into the med-city is through the doors at the Rochester..
Business Matters - BM20161226
>> hey, good evening!
"business matters," we are talking immigration.
I love this title will america build walls or bridges.
Michael cutler you have been in this business for a long time, we hear the rhetoric which makes people crazy.
Do you think he is on the right track.
>> yes, i do, we admit more than a million lawful immigrants a year, we naturalize hundreds of thousands of citizens.
We have a legal system.
We spend $14 billion on customs and border protection.
If it doesn't matter how you come here, why bother with a legal system?
And if you look at the 9/11 commission and i provided testimony to the commission, it was fundamental failures of the immigration system that abled the terrorists and not just the 9/11 terrorists but others to embed themselves in communities around the country.
We have seen that with narcotics trafficking and other crimes.
Our laws are like the responsible home owner who looks through the peephole being careful not to let someone in who will do harm.
>> jason, do you agree with that?
>> i think everyone has reasonable concerns as to the amount of security positions people want to put on to people coming into the country.
The united states needs to start allowing more people in the country because we are on the beginning of a demographics time bomb that is affecting europe and most of the western countries?
>> the population of the united states is not growing at any rate that is going to be sustainable.
>> you are saying we need humans?
We need more people in the mix?
>> there are -- women are not having enough babies to replace the population of the united states.
>> there you go.
Ron, your thoughts on that.
>> you got to love the liberals.
That's one of the more crazy ones i have heard.
>> that's a fact.
>> forget the fact that we will open the border you because we don't have enough people -- you are worse than hillary clinton.
>> the bottom line tony is for the first in many, many years, we have an incoming president who is going to address the problem of illegal immigrants which is decades old, needing to be addressed and left alone.
We can't have people come and go as they please, especially with the world security situation the way it is, but even own a lower level of jobs.
We have people who are born here, third, fourth generation who can't find a job because some illegal immigrant got his job.
You want a roof on in the lehigh valley, chances are it will be illegal imdwrabts they are employing.
>> it's not just illegal ail yons, alan greenspan testified before the senate and i have been before that committee myself, he said we have to create wage equality by making american workers compete with for rip workers in the high tech industries.
He referred to high tech workers as the privileged elite earning wage reamium because there is no competition.
If we could cut middle class salaries we would greatly reduce inequality in wages.
So what we are talking about is the dismantling of the middle class.
>> olga, when you hear this, you have friends, family, people that have come to this country and made it their life, their world.
Does it scare you?
Your thoughts on that?
>> well, it gets me to think in many different ways.
For example, i'm an immigrant myself even though i'm a united states citizen.
I'm from puerto rico.
I believe that anybody who lives in the lehigh valley.
>> you were an american at birth, you are not an immigrant.
>> i know that, sir.
But an immigrant is anybody who was born in allentown and moved to bethlehem, that's an immigrant.
You emigrate your city where you were born.
>> we are talking a legal term.
>> real quick because i want to give olga some time.
>> if we are going to talk immigration law then let's base the discussion on law.
Alien means any person not a citizen or national.
An immigrant is a foreign national illegally admitted to the united states.
>> you want to speak from the harm.
>> that is correct.
I'm not a politician.
I don't have any kind of college degree, but i'm a human being who has been suffering with the immigration situation in a negative way.
For example, i bring a daughter legally into the country several years ago, but it took me thousands of dollars before i can do a visa for her.
And when she came into the country, we have a lot of hard time because she didn't adjust to the system.
So what do i did?
I took her back home where she was from.
>> back to puerto rico.
Now, people think that all of the immigrants that we have anywhere, they are criminals.
It's not, it doesn't work that way.
I do agree somehow with the new president which by the way i didn't vote for him, but i do agree in certain things.
For example, criminals should be gone, criminals, drug dealers, all of that.
But the good people that come to this country to work and to make a better living, why not give them -- >> the criminals should go, but if you ship them out, they will come back if you don't have the border protection.
>> you will stay with this show.
Great, great show, "business matters" be right back talking immigration.
>> you're watching "business matters," because if it's business, it matters.
>> want to enjoy the show on the go?
Subscribe to our podcast, go to www.wfmz.com/businessmatters for more information.
Now, back to tony iannelli.
>> we are back.
We are back.
So on this side, what do you say when you think of olga's relatives, family, friends whatever, that are here, that are hard working good, solid people.
Sorry, you do it the right way or that's it?
No passage from your perspective?
>> if you look at the grounds for exclusion and it's under title 8 united states code section 1182 and i'm giving you that because i want people to research.
It's about keeping out aliens with dangerous diseases, mental illnesses, criminals, spies, human rights violators, fugitives from justice, aliens who would displace workers.
I spent years as an immigration agent where i didn't speak to a spanish person.
The notion about the latino voter is bigotry to begin with.
Latino americans have the same goals as every other american.
We want to live in a safe country where the military protects us from terrorists and our enemies.
>> it's been clear when the incoming president, you know, speaks of latino and the mexican community, that shifts -- >> he didn't start it.
>> i'm not fighting -- >> i understand, but understand we keep hearing about the fence on the border.
15 years ago they were talking about a fence on the border as though this is the only problem.
We are a nation of 50 border states, i wrote an article, i want to make the point that i called border security and the immigration colander.
If you only plug one hole, you still have a leaky hole.
>> the fundamental point that everybody needs to understand about this is that the number of people in this country who are having births is falling below the replacement rate.
How many grand kids do you have?
>> right now, i have one.
>> how many kids could do you have.
>> where are the other three people.
The average age for people having babies is 28.
In order for the country to grow and i'm saying this to people who owns a piece of property.
Places like japan are shrinking by hundreds of thousands of people.
>> are you saying we are going to decline by shear numbers.
>> if you don't have a replacement ratio, you cannot maintain.
What will happen in the community if one year a person dies.
>> under his philosophy we need to do a reverse china.
In china you could only have one, preferably a bod and if it was a girl and disappeared that would be okay too.
They are now opening that up and they can have more.
But under your theory, every family 34u have three children.
>> you need to have 2.1 children per woman to maintain the population.
>> i don't know that that's an issue in anybody's mind.
>> the point is we need to increase immigration coming into the united states.
>> since the beginning of time, in every society -- >> i want to get to olga.
>> if you look, jobs are going away because of automation.
The day when we needed labor intense, the factories are gone.
If you look at old factories that built carves you had hundreds of people moving cars.
It's turned to robotics.
The point is we have over 90 million unemployed americans.
If you think bringing more workers would help unemployed americans, it makes no sense.
>> olga, i want your thoughts on this.
>> what i wanted to say is it that if any of you know about any of the high school graduate recently or in the last five years that have finished high school and do not like to go to college, how many of them have been going to pick up tomatoes or peppers or anything like that?
>> so what she is saying this immigration wave, if you stop it, because we had someone here from the fruit growers association, if you don't allow this immigration, you are not going to have food on your table to the extent we have.
>> we have provisions for agricultural reasons.
>> what you are staying is for lack of a better term the white whiewnt, they are not doing the jobs that you see your friends, neighbors, relatives doing, that's correct.
>> how many people are working in that industry, though?
>> they are allowing people to come in for farming.
That's been around a long time.
Southern california wouldn't survive.
They supply us with a lot of produce and vegetables and fruits, but they are allowed to come in and work for a certain amount of time and go back.
That's been allowed because they understood that.
But what about the guy who is in the roofer's union can't get a job putting on roofs because somebody from costa rica or venezuela is up on the roof.
>> this is where we have the difference between legal and illegal.
>> they are all illegal.
>> it doesn't matter if it's republican or democrat, there is a firm business interest going on now that wants to make sure that there is an influx of illegal immigrants because.
>> cheap labor.
I understand that.
>> the important point though you have to find a way of making most of these people legal who are going to be here.
You have to increase the amount.
>> here is the problem.
How do you make them legal?
There is no interviews possible for millions of people?
Let me finish.
I heard you, now, you hear me.
There is no way of properly investigating them.
We have given citizenship to terrorists, the time square bomber got naturalized 13 months before 9/11.
The sarneyh family got political asylum.
There is no integrity to the legal system.
There is no agents doing the investigation, there is no integrity to the process.
It threatens national security and public safety.
>> so do you see some good in immigration done the right way?
>> yes, my mother was an immigrant.
I'm not antiimmigrant.
I'm pro enforcement and we have got to change this terminology.
>> are you pro enforcement to the extent that the door is virtually closed?
I'm pro enforcement.
You are admitting a million lawful immigrants that's more than the entire world combined so don't tell me we have a closed door.
I support and in fact for 30 years of my adult life enforced the laws that permit a million lawful immigrants.
>> you were on the front line.
You have seen this on the front line.
>> and i spent half my career with the drug task force.
I have arrested people working in factories.
You get one opportunity for first impression.
The first laws that foreign nationals encounter are immigration laws.
We have them convinced that no matter what you do, you will be rewarded for violating the law.
And sanctuary cities harbor and shield criminals and fugitives and terrorists from detection.
It's illegal and you have politicians with a false narrative endangering national security for a political objective.
>> societies and countries since the beginning of time have had to protect their borders.
Think of the trojan horse, once the trojan horse got in and your border was not protected, it was the downfall.
This country has not protected its borders and as such, the world trade center and we could go on and on and on.
>> they are asking me to go to commercial.
There they are, they will be great guests, good show.
Immigration, "business matters."
>> you're watching "business matters because if it's business, it matters.
Want to voice your thoughts on this week's topic or guest?
Sound off on social media.
Use the hashtag business matters tv.
That's hashtag business matters tv.
Now, back to "business matters."
>> hey, we are back.
This is a great show.
We are talking immigration and i want to make sure, again, being a latino you have friends, family, i don't want to miss the point that there are a lot of, is it safe to say from your perspective a lot of people that it would be of great benefit to this country that you are concerned will get pushed out?
>> tell me about that.
>> from a church perspective, from the evangelical church perspective the growth of the evangelical church in the united states has mostly been due to the influx from the global south.
Coming up here, converting from catholicism and other religions to evangelical christianity.
So for the growth and the mission of the church in the united states, i think that immigration is a benefit.
>> but do you think, when this president says things are going to change.
It's going to be, you know, he is going to start enforcing the laws.
Are you concerned?
Or are you in support of it?
>> we need secure borders, i'm not against secure borders.
What i am for is humanely treating those who are here, who have integrated into our culture and society, what we do with them humanely.
>> is humanely a "buzz" word fo saying not move them out, give them a path for citizenship?
Is that what that is?
>> i would like a path for sit chenship but i want a safe society.
>> i am an immigrant myself.
>> your thoughts on this, from the middle east, syria, right?
>> i'm from syria.
What do you hear in the community, i guess is the question?
>> in the community, i mean, most syrians in this community, especially in the past 10, 15 years are immigrants themselves.
>> and i want to make the point there is a huge syrian population in the lehigh valley.
>> very big syrian population and it's growing and from other middle eastern countries as well.
I don't think you will find anybody who will be opposed to legal immigration.
When we start to talk about illegal immigration the humanitarian factor is important because to think that there is going to be a viable option to round up every illegal immigrant and ship them out of the country, one, it's not practical, two, it's way too costly and there are humanitarian concerns.
I see the real life implications of just raid, grab and toss out of the country.
You have people who have u.s. citizen children and spouses who will remain in this country and that creates a problem.
>> when you listen to these people, the first guy, we are not having enough children so we need the illegal immigrants here.
He wants to leave the illegal immigrants here because the evangelical church can grow faster.
She is saying it costs too much money.
Where is the logic from you people?
If you are here illegally, you don't belong here.
If you commit a crime, you go to jail.
We have laws.
If you want to immigrate to the united states, you have to do certain things, and we let a lot of people in here every year, but if you are illegal, you don't belong here.
>> what do we say to that particular group that says, hey, if you come here, you are undocumented, you are illegal, you are going back.
Pure and simple.
>> you have to deal with the realities of today.
In a perfect world you would have a completely secure border.
>> so if you are here illegal, just pass a law as of right now this minute everybody illegal, you are now legal.
That's what you are saying.
>> what are you saying?
>> you are going to keep doing what you are doing.
This administration, it's not all that new what they are suggesting.
>> what trump is going to do, he is going to address the situation.
If you are here illegally, you are going to get deported.
If you are here and you committed a crime, you are going to jail.
That's what the law says.
We live in a society bylaws.
>> i will say this, the deporting the criminals, under the obama -- >> they need to go to jail.
>> under the obama administration, he has deported more criminals than -- >> i heard that.
>> that is actually -- they no longer count the catch and release.
If you are at the border and they catch you they release you back into the united states.
So that's not true.
They are letting more people in than they are actually kicking out.
And by the way, he is also releasing criminals out of the jail system.
So where are those people going?
Back into your community.
It hits your bottom lines, i get it.
If we kick people out, you won't have as much business and you won't have people packing your carts, i understand, but the truth is, the people need to go.
They are here illegally.
They need to go.
They need to leave.
>> i want to talk about those points.
You said i see the lives.
You ask people who have been here 20 and 30 years and for the people being cut up because of the criminal justice system.
>> you are saying you know these people, they are your neighbors.
>> it's twofold because the people he is referring to whether it's catch or release or whether it's criminals, even if they are not in immigration jail, which is packed full of people, and which would even back to the cost, you need to house these people.
You need to, if you are going to hold them for one and two and three years -- >> you don't need to house anybody.
>> get them through the immigration process.
>> they are actually in immigration proceedings, they are in court systems and they are being deported.
>> then you need more judges because they have clogged the court systems for that fact.
>> but for the people who are here who are not criminals, who are not in immigration proceedings, they are marrying u.s. citizens and having children who are u.s. citizens.
>> you go through the process to become.
>> shank on.
>> ask the question you were going to -- >> are you willing to rip a father or mother out of a household and leave a 2-year-old u.s. citizen child.
>> they knew when they came here illegally.
If they don't catch you for 20 years you still go to trial and get the electric chair.
>> are you willing to be a foster parents for the u.s. citizen child.
What do you do with the children?
>> they go back with their parents back where they came from.
>> they they go with a relative who is a u.s. citizen.
Your friends created it.
>> there was a cuban boy back in the 90s who was a u.s. citizen because of his parents and he was sent back to cuba at rifle.
They went in with rifles and took him and sent him back to cuba.
This isn't a new concept.
>> i'm a legal immigrant.
I was born in portugal.
I moved when i was eight years old.
I had a green card until i was 16 years old.
I knew when i had a green card if the president said you need to go, i needed to go.
So if they want to split my family up, that's fine.
That's what we signed on for.
If i had run across the rio grande, and i didn't even have a green card, i would much less expect that because now for legal people like me that did it legally that their parents spent thousands of dollars and the things i had to do.
>> how did you become a legal citizen?
>> my great grandmother came to america and then she became a sponsor for my aunts and uncles on my father's side and by the 1970s and 80s, they were calling my father and in 1985 we came over here legally.
So you went back and came back.
>> as green card immigrants.
>> this is a great, great show.
Stay with us, "business matters," be right back, talking immigration.
>> you're watching "business matters, because if it's business, it matters.
Miss an episode of "business matters," catch up on line, go to www.wfmz.com/businessmatters to watch the most recent episode.
Now, back to tony iannelli.
>> we are back, great show talking imgleyings, phenomenal guests.
So you heard all of this.
Your thoughts on this?
>> i want to address something that the other two guests said about my point about the evangelical church needing immigration.
That's not the point.
The point is from my launching point, the grace, the forgiveness, the non-punishment is big in our faith.
So to the extent that folks came in illegally, i think that we have to acknowledge that the system was broken.
I think we can all say that the system was broken.
The system has always been broken.
The system has always been broken.
It needs to be fixed, but those who is have come who have children who are citizens here, who are members of our churches whether they are evangelical, catholic or otherwise.
I think they have to have an opportunity.
That's where i come in my message is one of compassion.
>> are you saying they are productive, the way you know them they are productive assets to this country?
>> yes, what we like to say, america, america was founded and judeo christian principles, we are inculcating those prig wills.
>> you said they are productive members of society.
Can you tell me what percentage of illegal immigrants pay federal income tax?
>> no, i can't tell you that.
>> you ought to figure it out, because if you figure it out, you might think differently.
Those guys on the roof get paid in cash.
They get paid in cash.
>> i'm not going to exchange money for grace.
>> they take from americans, they don't give.
>> that's very wrong.
>> to add to that point, federal income tax and state income tax isn't the only way they are contributing.
They are buying groceries, they are paying rent.
>> who pays for our national defense other than income tax.
>> they are buying hopes, operating businesses.
>> this has been a great, great show, but it goes that fast, we have one minute to go, tony, your parting thoughts.
>> why aren't they building those businesses and being productive in their own countries?
Because their countries are sending them to us so that we are now taking them in and helping them out when their own country should watch out for them.
In portugal when i was in portugal, portugal was supposed to take care of me.
As soon as i stepped foot in america i wanted to be american and they should do the same thing through the proper channels because the system is there.
>> we are a country of laws.
That's what has kept us a democracy, a republic for years, the fact that we have laws and you must obey the laws, but when you take a look at the illegal immigrant situation, it's the american who has a job who is paying his state and federal income tax, he pays for the things that most of the time these people get for free when they walk in a hospital and want care and they have know insurance, and i could go on and on.
The illegal immigrants suck out of america the working class american puts in so they can suck out.
>> i'm hoping that in the conversation we will start to give, even illegal immigrants the credit that they are made in god's image and that we will give them that dignity and the opportunity to succeed and to give back to this country.
>> i just think that, i think we can find common ground and that certainly everyone should follow the same set of rules.
We should be enforcing immigration laws.
I just caution that everybody thinks that it's just that simple to round up everybody who came here, who broke a law, who didn't follow the same process and show them to the door, put them own an airplane and think that that's going to be the fix.
It's just not, one, it's not practical, two, it's not humane, and three, i think we can have better fixes.
We have had them in the past.
We do have them currently, and i think we can find new solutions.
>> this was a great, great show.
Imiation in this united states.
Thanks for being with us, don't forget.
If it's business, it
Related news coverage
You might like
We discuss trusts and wills on today's On the Beat.